Live poker bankroll

Posted 8 years ago

Hey everyone,

I've mentioned in a few posts that I've started playing some live cash games recently and I'm now beginning to include it in my normal grind.

I'm going to be playing 1/2 and probably 3-5 times a month.

Does anyone know what kind of bankroll management is best for this?

So far I've just been taking £300, buyining in for £150 with a second bullet for if I busto... Shit strategy I nkow, although it makes my risk reward pretty sweet Cheeky

Any suggestions on a roll required? I've seen 20 buy ins thrown around a bit... That is £4k which would be a large chunk out of my savings... I may put together a chunk myself then see if people want to invest in my roll as a long term staking agreement.

Any thoughts very welcome!
CycleVancouver

Last Post 8 years ago by

CycleVancouver

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Posted 8 years ago
I would say you are leaving so much money on the table taking this approach. There is literally zero doubt in my mind if you have adjusted well you will always be top 3 best player at any table. You need to buy in for the max and if they have no cap put down as much as possible. Cover everyone basically.

20 buy ins sounds totally fine and will be hard to knock that in short and long term.
Posted 8 years ago
Aye, I'm just getting my feet wet arm, want to keep my risk down to £300 each session just so I don't blow out!

Plan long term is to buy in for 200bb with second 100bb bullet, but for this id need 20buy ins for sure!

If in the next two months I can have 10 buy ins I will buy in for 100bb with a second bullet of 75bb untill I'm happy with where I'm at in terms of ability and be Smile
Posted 8 years ago
I agree that 20 buy ins should be enough. I usually bring 2 bullets with me but I also like to keep a few extra chips in my pockets if I want to rebuy 20-30bb on top of what's left of my stack.
Posted 8 years ago
Re: BI amount: I agree in theory with @Jon-PokerVIP, but I'll offer the counterpoint that the live and online experience is so different that even if you're a crusher at NL50, you'll still be a beginner at live for a while, and there's absolutely no shame in not buying in for the max right away. Buy in 75BB, wait an orbit or two, and see if you're in a good seat to top up or not. If you have an aggro or two on your left and they seem pretty competent, you might not want to top up until you can get a table or seat change. There's one well-known player/commentator in California who always buys in 80 BB until he has a sense of what's what, and he's way better than me, so I always think about his strategy...then buy in for the max 150BB anyway. Cool

(related note is that you'll quickly learn that playing 250+BB deep is a much different feeling, and esp when you're in the BR building stage, there's a tendency to play a shade tighter than normal and protect your stack. Soon you'll be comfy donking off 300BB with the best of 'em. :P)

Re: BRM: 20 BI is is certainly do-able, but near the bottom of where you'd like to be. It's a reasonable starting point for a "decent amateur" player, which I'm sure you are. I'm going to cut and paste something I posted a few months ago from my Live Poker Containment thread, since I was in a spot similar to where you are now.

BRM: I'm not practicing BRM for my live game. I don't want to touch my online roll, but I took $2K in profits out, and decided to use some of it to "take shots" at 1/2 live. (I'd been to the casino before, but again, just taking a shot once every few months.) Now I can mentally consider myself freerolling, thanks to a hot month and V's who love chasing gutshots, while at the same time still acknowledging that I'm still in the taking shots phase, even if it's 3x/week. I can envision a time when I decide to properly set up a live BRM plan, esp if I decide to hop to Vegas for a few days, which I would prob only do if I have enough profits from my current game.
Theoretically, proper BRM for 1/2 live is anywhere from 20-50+ BI, depending on what your goals are, and also how close to bust you can get before you mentally decide you busted. (It does no good to have 20 BI but when you lose 10 you freak and quit the game. Turns out, you honestly only had 10 BI after all.) 20 is low end for a rec player who is decent and TAGgy, which is where I'm at, so I could actually start proper BRM now. But TBH, I think there's a bit less pressure the way I'm mentally doing it, and less pressure lets me stay TAG and not go into nit mode. It's getting easier to just shrug when I lose $100 as pfr + 2 barrels with air, but it still helps that I think of it as fun/learning money and not BR. I would totally be the guy in my example, says he has $3K to lose but quits after $2K. So I just don't go there yet.
Posted 8 years ago
Yeah, right now I'm still really just shot taking and getting my feet wet. Just hate the feeling "when I lose this 150 it's 150 of my real money". Would much rather take like 2-4k and say this is live poker money and if I lose that then it was a learning curve.

Thanks mate appreciate the comments!
Posted 8 years ago
One thing I think you missed out there @CycleVancouver about buying in with less than 100bb is not actually about shame or missing out on money but actually do you know how to play a 75bb stack profitably?
Posted 8 years ago
Against the guys playing 1/2 live.... Yes I think so Wink
Posted 8 years ago
CrazyCookie: Against the guys playing 1/2 live.... Yes I think so ;)


Winner of the "Funniest and bestest thing Cycle will read all day" award.
Posted 8 years ago
Ha fair answer. GTO might be to do it the way you are but WIAQ strategy may disagree.
Posted 8 years ago
Jon-PokerVIP: Ha fair answer. GTO might be to do it the way you are but WIAQ strategy may disagree.


WIAQ? idk this. Even Dr. Google can't find this one.

1/2 is like NL10 online, so GTO is waaaaaay overdoing it here.

How many of us know how to play 200+ BB profitably? I sure don't and I've been at the live circuit for 5 months now. Years of knowing when to stack off with 100BB has my brain wired in a way that is taking a long time to change. For me I think I need to learn to call/overcall IP much wider than I do now.

No matter what you buy in for, usually half the table is around 100BB or less anyway, so being deep comes into play less than you'd think. To be sure, it's super important when it does come into play. I'm gonna post two related HH in my containment thread.
Posted 8 years ago
WIAQ
Posted 8 years ago
I've played about 4.5million hands of full ring cash games online and dropped 20 buyins three times over that sample at stakes I knew I was a winner in. With your current game being tougher than what I'd expect a 1/2 live to be like, I would say 20 buyins is fine.

I'm not a fan of buying in for 75bb though. You're into that mid stack strategy area which has plenty of its own wrinkles compared to 100bb. It's going to feel a bit like starting over again, and you'll be second guessing yourself in a totally new environment.

I'm torn over what @Jon-PokerVIP says about always covering everybody at the table. If live is all new, and with the increased stakes you're pushing into your life savings then I'd say start off with 100bb until you're a few buyins up at least. Not sure how comfortable you are playing deep stacked, but it's still going to take sometime to adjust to "live" deepstacked play compared to online regarding what the average player will stack off 200bb+ with.
Posted 8 years ago
The only thing I would say regarding 100bb or more is that for the most part you're not going to stack without a very strong hand and therefore having people coved isn't quite as importnat...

That being said I will be buying in for 100bb with a 20bi roll.

Right now I'm just getting used to live and have a maximum risk of 250-300/ session so if I buy in for 100bb I then only have 50bb max tonplay with. It's just a br kind of thing, I've already folded a few hands because it was a higher varience spot when they were calls just because my br is so limited at this moment.

So far live I'm probably about breakeven but really enjoy if. Also AL in EV I'm about -250 lol
Posted 8 years ago
Seems like you've got a good sense of where you are personally, and we all know your game is fine, so it will all come, poker gods willing. 2 quick points, which you prob already figured out but just in case:

1. PFR are so lol big that even 100 BB plays shorter due to SPR.

2. "Strong Hand" is a much different concept in lol Live play. Even TPGK is often worth the 3rd barrel if you have the initiative.

Also, if you really have 20 BI, you really should bring 2 full bullets per session. Either 100BB or 150, that's up to you, but having a full bullet as back-up will let you play closer to your normal game. If that feels like too much to risk in one session, then I'd say that you don't really have 20BI mentally that you're ready to lose. That's not an insult, I just know there's a psychological component to scared money that you should take into account. I've been there, we've all been there. To the extent that you can, don't be there. Cheeky