nicamstereo

I appreciate all your advice Raphael and I take it on board. I understand variance and all that goes with it as I worked for on course bookmakers in the uk for 29 years, I have been in and around betting all my life so I kow what to expect. Just tonight I got allin AA V AKo and lost, but I know long term that I will win that 93% of the time. I understand that part of it. It is more from a viewpoint of getting a little lost in what i was doing. I actually felt I played well tonight despite losing 16 dollars, I took a little more time over each decision. I know I have much to learn and being aggressive is not natural to me so its something I have to learn to overcome. I am not going to drop down in stakes, I know what you are saying but it is just the way it is for me. Its another day tomorrow so onward and upwards.

Raphael:

dont worry mate, that's just a natural swing that evens out a very good start to a more realistic start. You are up, bankroll is going in the right direction, so does your play. Nothing to worrie about
Most people in these stakes play weak-loose. Means they call too much preflop and play fit-or-fold on the flop. Take notes and mark these players, these are the ones you want to play against in position and c-bet the flop against them (in position) anytime.
Don't be afraid to c-bet (in p-o-s-i-t-i-o-n). A c-bet of 1/2 the pot only needs to make your opponent fold 1 out of 3 times to show a profit. If the fit-or-fold fish calls the flop c-bet and checks the turn, you can slow down on a blank turn (check back), or represent (bet 2/3) a scarecard, depending on what range you put him on his flopcall. Don't "blind-fire" the turn! Take your time on the turn and think about what you want to sell (represent) with your bet before you fire. No shame to slow down and check-down complete air. If he checks back and the river is a scarecard, I fire 100% and steal it if he checks to me (this is the power of position). This needs some balls! Don't smallbet-bluff the river! If you read weakness, fire a big bet of at least 3/4 potsize or pot it, but don't overbet. If your hand has some showdown value but you dont feel he can fold, you can check back and see a cheap showdown. With more confidence, thin-valuebets will come....
When you are up against a good player (you should mark them too and take notes!), beware that your c-bet flop/check turn line shows weakness and he picks up on this. Against fish you can get a check-down to showdown, but a good agressive player might push you off the hand. So, when he fires the river after you checked the turn, calling is out of question. Keep it simple. If your c-bet gets called and you check the turn, you basicly gave up the hand but there is no shame in this. I do this all the time in the microstakes because most players are just mindnumb random buttonclicking monkey callingstations that will call you down with all sorts of shit hands. If you got them beat, valueebet their asses off. If you aint got them beat, slow down and take it easy.
Got a made hand? Opponent calls the flop? Bet-Bet-Bet... value is on the turn in these stakes.
Keep it up, you are doing good

AMAZING Advice !
You know I really think you would make an awesome coach ! Write an e-book man !
I think you just wrote the Bible of Poker for beginners in one post !
Keep preaching aggro ! We love it !

Thank you.
Funny enough, back in the days when I had a life (:D) I was a teacher and a coach. But didn't know nothing about poker and never played it. Was Monopoly king at home and that was enough.
(To the day, I never lost a single game of Monopoly, but I am broke in real life all the time. Mad world that is ^^)

Tell you something. I know I post a bit too much (because I am bored as f***) and it's all a bit much. I bombed in and here I am and you poor people got to deal with it. Shit happens. I happpend, and I wont go away

I took a buck and made it 100. Now I take the 100 and make it 1000. I wont stop there.
I once told a nice lady that one day I'd make million dollar playing poker, fly her to Vegas and merry her, and buy us a nice little house on the Bahamas.
The nice lady is long gone, but the Bahamas are still there, and I am on my way. Just $9999900 short, but I am on my way

And then I write a book

back on topic:
I know how you feel and it just sucks.
I don't know much about betting or other forms of gambling because I only play poker (all sorts of) but nothing else. I never place a bet, flip a coin, play blackjack (I would if I could because I can count) or do anything else but play poker.
And I've seen my bankrolls twindle down often enough to know how it feels.
Three weeks ago at Stars, I was down to my last $10 and completely gave up on poker. Ready to just donk it away I sat at a 10NL cashgame, folded some hands when all of a sudden a 10J hand appears and somehow I win it, leave the table, go to bed with $25. The next day I felt better. So I thought what am I gonna with it? Well, it's in my journey. And all I know is that it is very painful for me to play the stakes I need to play right now. Getting whooped in the micros isn't fun. I've been there many times, and I went broke many times.
And I always new better, the next day, when it was too late.
As long as you have dollar in your bankroll, there is always a game, and always the chance to play improve and run it up.
Look what I do man! Don't go broke, it's not worth it

To Nicam :
You're in the good direction man, you ask yourself the right questions, you're not sticking to your preconceptions, you question them, that's what differentiates you from the fish who play the game like a game of luck, " hoping " to catch their card. You think, at least you try, eventually you will, believe me : I was just a fish who had no clue and played by feeling, well eventually thinking came by the force of things (it will because when you'll be pissed off enough to see all that money go you will HAVE to think – what doesn't kill you makes you ...what ?), never stop playing (take breaks when you're steaming of course!), I do believe that dropping stakes would be useful, don't play for the money right away, play to learn and the money will come, with experience you will learn to recognise that move, sense weakness, know when you're beat (maybe the most useful), and the most magical thing about improving is that you become less and less affected by variance, because you know when you made the right play and there is nothing to regret and when you made a mistake and from now on you won't make it again.
That's it, for the details, see to Raphael lol
I think you've come to the right place, this site is the best !

Am I wrong or do I get the feeling your life revolves badly around poker ? Like poker is your true calling big time. Marry in Vegas, house in the bahamas (to play the PCA of course), millions in your account, beautiful women,...

Hi Gnarly - thanks!
I dont think my life revolves around poker or that it is my true calling, and the house in the bahamas and the beautiful women are not in my aspirations, Im far too old, lol.
I just want to learn this game even from scratch. Your points about experience ring true and learning is going to be about repetition as well as understanding. Tonight I felt I was starting to get little bits in my head, for example I barreled verses a guy who never folded flop but who folded turn like 80%, which I couldnt do before and he folded(it seems at Party they all call the flop. So much to learn and remember for an old guy like me, thanks to you for posting.

I know you've said you won't drop down a stake, but honestly...

STEP DOWN

no one likes admitting they need to drop down to improve but it is the best thing you could do. Some of the staked players at this site have had to step down to tweak their game so that they can go back up and crush it, and there is no better feeling!!

I know it will be a lot of information for you to take it but I would say watch some of the videos and read some forums maybe instead of playing for part of your session as this will improve your game drastically! Try and add 1/2 things into your game at a time, no ones expecting you to turn into a wizard after 1 video!

Post hands in here as much as you can also, so that people can try and give you as much advice as possible but the most important thing is be patient.

If you like the game and put the effort into it by playing and being willing to learn, I have no doubt you will be able to bea profitable player, don't expect to sprint it though, it's called a grind for a reason!

Good luck though and we will of course try and help as much as possible!

Gnarlydude:

Am I wrong or do I get the feeling your life revolves badly around poker ? Like poker is your true calling big time. Marry in Vegas, house in the bahamas (to play the PCA of course), millions in your account, beautiful women,...

Wrong

But it's always good if one can dream.

Yeh really like this thread and the advice/opinions are so helpful imo.

Now dropping down could be the best option-if you cant beat the games you are in atm (variance or skill level) then drop down, crush the stakes and the main thing you get from this is confidence. A lot of our staked players get moved up and down the levels and they all find when they get moved down how much easier it is. It gives them new energy to start crushing again...which they generally do. Give it a go...whats the worst that can happen? Just move back up again if you dont want to be there.

Set some goals and make a routine. Playing certain hours and hands can structure your play better and it also makes you care less about the end result. As you have done your job, you have played your A game so what else is there to do?

Deffs post up tons of hands in the strat forum and watch all the videos, read all the articles and take part in the school courses. Emerge yourself in everything basically.

Sorry I haven't replied to others journeys, but I took a couple of days off. I watched some videos mostly the older ones of Dustin Juniper and Jack Wilcox and pretty good they are too. They are probably outdated a little but the basics remain the same.
I played a session last night and booked a small loss again, just ran into top of a couple of shorties range. For example shorty with 40*bb raises cut off I 3b with JJ, he shoves, I have to call and I run into QQ. But I think JJ is doing okay against a shorty range there which without reads will be something like AQ+,77+. so JJ is doing well enough to call there against an LP shorty. I am not sure how well JJ does v a 40*bb shorty utg as they seem to play a little more honest utg. I have seen plenty shorties shove even lower pairs and stuff like 44+ and AJo+ from LP.
So I feel I just ran into the top of their range not much you can do about it.
I am going to take things a little slower for a week or so just playing maybe 1 session a day for a couple of hours, and then carrying on reading and watching videos.

heey man welcome!!

Played for two hours this afternoon, had a great start getting allin with the nut straight and fading the flush draw, a few hands later I was up 140bb!! I nearly called it a day there and then just to book a win after such a challenging spell, but I thought well that's just silly as I had a good table and its all about playing well and learning not just stopping because you are winning. Well I ended up only winning 20bb and that was dissaponting. I never hit any flop of any description after that, I kept isoing limpers with AJ and AK and KQ and the like, c betting sometimes and losing every pot. I try not to cbet all the time missing especially against the stations who call any part of the board, but the losses soon mount up. I made a small error when deciding to 3b TT instead of calling in sb v button open but other than that didnt feel I done too much wrong. I am still a bit weak tight but trying to improve it. One had where I got flummoxed is when I raise AKo utg, get 3b by mp who was average stats and 11% 3bet(not necessarily from MP. Do you call there or 4 bet as a default. I 4bet, not sure if I was stacking off for 115 bb, and he just flatted. I dont know why people are flatting 4 bets. Flop came J65, what do I do now? Flop is like $11 and spr is 2.3 or something. Is it good to shove there or just cbet give up??

nicamstereo:

. I 4bet, not sure if I was stacking off for 115 bb, and he just flatted.

ALWAYS have a plan before you make a play, in this spot you can't 4bet fold AK so its fairly straight forward to play (until villain flats) but if you are struggling to come to a clear descsion in this spot I would guess you rarely have a plan for what to do v differnet actions.

nicamstereo:
I dont know why people are flatting 4 bets.

TT is better to 3bet from the SB v BTN open so don't worry about that ;). W/ the AK hand- If he has 3bet from MP v an UTG raise he is super strong probably AK, JJ+ so I think we can either oput out a 40% cbet or give up. HAte shoving as villain wont call with worse and will make the same decision as to what to do with his hand regardless of sizing.

ALSO

This is a great example- you had no plan for when he flats. Before you make a play think about how you will react to a call or raise then you wont be in a tough spot. Also have a plan for future streets- cbetting aimlessly on a flop then on a blank turn for example is how players end up in the "bluffing vortex". When we CBET to gain maximum equity eg. if we have TPTK we want value so bet to get called, if we have a BDFD + OC we bet with equity and improve our equity with the fold equity we gain by betting. We bet for a reason and should already know on what turn cards to continue on. EG if we turn TP or a FD we continue if not we shut down.

It's always hard moving sites you'll find out soon enough if it was a good idea or not then can make the best decision to stay or go

Thanks Stewie - you are absolutely spot on I don't have a plan at all. My thoughts were more on defending my open. Im mixed up in theory and thoughts. For example I open utg and get 3b, I have to defend some of my range there. If I have 66 and get 3 bet then I am happy to fold as I am rarely getting odds to call, often having to call 1.5 to get his remaining 22.5(assuming 100bb stacks) its only 15/1, but what about TT and JJ are they just the same. I would also be happy to 4 bet bluff some hands I open utg like AJo, here my plan would be to fold to a shove. But I cant keep opening 13-15% and folding to a 3 bet all the time unless I have AA/KK, most likely if that is all my 4bet range is then KK is more likely only to get it all in v AA/KK! I have to defend some of my opening range otherwise I would just get 3 bet every time I open utg. Is calling AKo too weak here? I am not sure in this particular example that I would have wanted to call if he shoved, idk getting it allin with AKo verses JJ+ and AK you are only 40/60 and you would have to have a read that he would get it in lighter than that, do people get it in lighter v an utg raiser? In this particular example on the J65 I didnt even cbet, I just meekly checked gave up. Do you have to get used to calling 5bet shoves with AKo, at this moment I would rather be the 5 bet shover with AKo because you have FE as well. It would be different if all this was LP game as I would GII with AK more freely. Im lost I think, maybe I should stop playing but I know I wont as I put aside the money to give it a shot and if it goes it goes thats it!!

aha, I think you are thinking a little too deeply into it. I would very rarely 4bet bluff UTG becaseu a reg will be 3betting the very top of their 3bet range and a handfull of bluffs and a passive fish will only be 3betting hands that we are 40/60 to anyway. OOP I think it plays more straihgt forward preflop ie. if BTN, CO, MP 3bet me I decided if I have a hand to stack off wiht- normally that is AK, KK, AA (probably QQ as well depending on villain). Anything else we have to work out how hard they will play OOP in a 3bet pot PP play awful OOP so I'm probably folding 22-88 (depending on stack sizes) and agree would defend with 99-JJ(QQ) but its an area that is so hard to play as we will so often have to c/f that we may as well fold those hands as well. We could 4bet these hands as our range will look oober strong so villain will fold KQ, AJ-AQ, TT/JJ combos and his small bluff range so will be shoving wiht QQ+ AK which will make up around 35% of his 3bet range v UTG.

With regard to calling off 5bets- we have A and K blockers so will be flipping more often than not and have too ggood dds once we 4 bet to fold, how much did u 4bet to out of interest?

I raised to 3bb, he 3bet me 10bb, I 4bet to 22bb, pretty standard I thought.

I felt I played pretty good all day today, well for me at least but another $20 dollars went on the missing list. In one spell this particular fish(a mark, so I value bet him) 2 and 3 outed me 4 times on the trot, all for decent pots,and that was that. The turn around on those 4 pots would have made me a decent winner on the day, very deflating, but what can you do but play your best to your current ability. Its another day tomorrow.

This is how my day started;

[pokercube=ff664/pokervip]

http://www.pokercube.com/ff664/pokervip

Party Poker
NoLimitHoldem $0.1/$0.25
Hero's cardsAA

Preflop
Small Blind Post SB $0.1, Hero Post BB $0.25, Under The Gun Raise $0.75, Hijack Folds, Cutoff Folds, Dealer Folds, Small Blind Call $0.75, Hero Raise $3.25, Under The Gun Folds, Small Blind Call $3.25

Flop 3JQ
Small Blind Check $0, Hero Bet $4, Small Blind Call $4

Turn 6
Small Blind All In $7.36, Hero Call $7.36

River 7
Small Blind Main Pot $28.48

Shortstack with 58*bb calls no odds to set mine then calls a squeeze, again no odds. I know I was beat when he donked turn but when you have an overpair and the SPR is less than 2, no way you can fold against a 39/26 fish! I bet the right amount on the flop to get all in on the turn as I was stacking off, but as I say I think I knew I was beat when he donked turn.
The very next hand I got it all in button v blind and he had KK, of course my 30% shot was nowhere to be seen. So within 3 hands I was losing $39. I felt sick ! I lost another $7 dollars in small pots then finally with a free play I hit a set and won 70 cents as obviously no one else had anything.

Since I started playing just under a month ago I have played 7k hands, currently losing $179 after at one stage being $138 ahead so a downswing of 13BI to date. I only have 13BI left so my journey might well be over very soon. So I am $179 behind yet my ev line is -$173. so if I had run just normal I would be pretty break even, which I would of gladly took whilst I was learning.
I remember when I was playing STT's some years ago I ran super bad for the last 3 months of playing despite being an overall winner at decent ROI. I know cash games are a different world altogether but just wish the poker gods could smile on me for once, I need it with my depleted bankroll.

You did nothing wrong in this hand , the hand is a cooler, he flops the shit out of your aces.
Stupid people do stupid things (I did some and took huge pots with it today). Sometimes stupid people do stupid things at the right time and hit "magic" on the flop.
If you play tight agressive solid poker, the dude might be observant. He looks at your stack, he looks at his stack, he makes a call because he takes the sum of potodds + implied potodds (which mathematicaly still don't justify he call because he is shortstacked) and thinks he makes a good call (which he doesn't, it's a missunderstanding in implied odds, found in many shortstackers heads)
Most likely he was just staring at his cards and thought "I have a paaaaiiiiir, I call"...
Don't beat yourself up, things like this happen all the time.
Longterm, he loses, you win. But also accept that poker is not blackjack. In blackjack there is 100% mathematical solution for every single play. In poker, there's not and it's not always about the odds.

I have managed to win about $38 dollars in the last couple of days, to ease the roll worries a little. I was unlucky tonight too as in about 8 hands I flopped a set v utg raiser, a flush and top boat, I only won $8 dollars in those hands as obviously no one else had anything much, so you need to be lucky to get paid off by second best hands. Still pleasing to at least get on an upward curve.

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