constructing a defence range

Posted 7 years ago


Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 50
constructing a defence range
Hi

My question is in regards to the construction a defence range and why a certain hand (NFD+TP) might not be included in the value raising part of that range, whereas the remaining NFD hands are. Why might this NFD hand, (which I assume has even greater equity as it hits top pair also) be demoted to the calling part of a range?

My question comes from a youtube tutorial entitled "studying with Flopzilla" by Delano Nunes. In this video, Nunes tackles constructing a range to defend against a flop cbet from a single MP raiser having flatted from the BTN pre-flop.

As his defence range is made up of value raises, bluffs and calls, Nunes starts to construct that range by determining which hands should make up the value part of that range, and my confusion comes from his choice to exclude a NFD+TP hand from his value raising range and to place it instead in the calling part of his range.

Flop Jd 8s 5s

The suited part of his pre-flop flatting range that gives him a flush draw on the flop is AQs AJs ATs KQs KJs QJs JTs 67s.

He chooses AsQs, AsTs, T9s and 67s as value raising hands against villains MP opening range. He mentions not including AsJs as part of the value raising range but does not explain why, assuming perhaps that one should understand why.

Hopefully this is obvious to someone.


Thanks
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fawltyfelix

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fawltyfelix

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Posted 7 years ago
Most likely because it is a made hand but not strong enough to raise for value so he uses it to strengthen his calling range instead! The main reason you are raising the NFDs is to gain fold equity which is not needed when you have top pair!
Posted 7 years ago
Its not entirely obvious to me. A value raise is a hands that has >50% EQ when called. So basically you would need to construct a betting range for MP. Its kind of challenging to do, but I played around with this myself and came up with one. Then you would need to calculate all the hands that he would bet with and then call a raise with and then see which hands in BU range have more than 50% vs the bet/call range. Not that my range is perfect, its no where near, but all JsXs is a value raise. They all have more than 50% EQ. Most times Pair+FD is just a raise GII for me and I think in this spot with AsJs it would for sure be that way. Some of the weaker JsXs maybe not.

So the only reasons I can come up with that he would leave those out are: maybe its for balance somehow. He wants to have some flushes in his calling range so he figures he will use the ones that already have a made hand. IDK doesn't really make sense to me. Only other thing I can think of is he just doesn't understand completely, how much equity a pair+FD has.

Specifically with AsJs I am for sure raising in this exact spot in almost all cases. I mean think about it, you are ahead of all of his draws, all of his Jx, any 8x(not sure he would bet/call all of this) you are actually at about 50/50 vs KK and QQ. You still have ~43% eq vs AA. You are only in really bad shape vs JJ, 88, and 55 and you still have outs versus those.
Posted 7 years ago
I actually found the video and Delano is not the one who made that vid. That is actually Matt Janda. He wrote a book called applications of no limit holdem

He actually says in the vid that the range he constructed is no where near optimal, but really really solid and wold be hard to play against. He didn't really give a specific reason other than earlier in the vid he did mention not wanting to raise any AJ as the felting range of villain would probably beat AJ, so maybe that is his reasoning. I still am not sure I agree, but I guess if you look at the felting range it would prob be JJ+,88, 55. Not sure most villains would just stack off draws or worse Jx. So in that case you end up stacking off against the part of their range that you are at best flipping with, but in most cases has you either slighly beat or in bad shape.

I still think it is a clear value raise, but I think it depends on your villain and how they construct there flop betting OOP in a spot like that.