I play on MPN without a HUD and don't have a problem with it. I use the ranges that I use my self as a starting point as well as experience from playing there for a while now, as well as assumptions about the player pool as a whole that I have learned from playing there. That is all I can really go off until I start to see some showdowns and see people play for a few orbits. So I basically just use a default play and don't start to deviate from that until someone gives me a reason to.

If you play on non tracking sites that allow you to take notes, you can take notes on players when the show up with something you weren't expecting. On MPN anon tables that is pretty useless as the notes don't stay with the player forever, only as long as they are at the table.

Play then in better rooms .

I do research on Internet how to calculate Vpip and Pfr without programs.Vpip is voluntary put in pot,and Pfr is preflop raise,more precisely how many times we raising when playing hands.When we calculate this parametars we shoud use sample of minimum 50 hands played.Example for Vpip:If Villian have 100 hands played,and 45 times villian put money in pot his VPIPis 45/100*100=45%.Formula for PFR=how many hands dealt to villian/how many hands raised.Do you agree guys with this?

Who thinks HUDS will still exist in 12 months time?

@Jon-PokerVIP Yeah not sure, certainly seems like poker is going that way. Off the top of my head, Unibet, Tonybet, AllinAsia sites, Microgaming all either don't allow HUDs or limit the info. I think even Party limits it to some degree on the reg tables. Doesn't give names or something so you only get session stats.

I wasn't happy when MPN decided to do what they did, but decided to stick with it and I am perfectly happy now. Feel fine playing without a HUD and at the moment I am doing quite well, so no reason to move sites for me.

From what I can tell, the sites that have no HUDs are softer as well. My theory is, the regs who rely on HUDs so heavily, leave and go to sites that still allow HUDs. Additionally, I think the recreational players on those sites feel "safe" so they stick around and maybe even more come. They some how feel like people can't bum hunt them or that info about them is not being used against them so somehow they have a better shot at winning. Its not the case. At the end of the day the weak players are eventually always going to lose their money to the stronger players. Thats just the poker economy

Against fish you never really get a huge sample anyway, so a lot of the info is useless. I guess the HUD helps you identify them faster, but really the HUDs help more when you get into the reg wars, but that isn't where your money is made. Don't get me wrong, if I could have a HUD i would, but its not necessary, its just nice tool to have.

Yeh that is quite a list of sites now who don't allow it! Can confirm Party do not either!

So that leaves

- ipk
- stars
- ???

HUDs work on Party Poker btw

Legally?

A lot has already been said on this topic both here and elsewhere, but I think regs ( at least the better ones) getting their rakeback slashed would have more influence on their decision to move sites than a hud or no hud rule. Decent regs can play well at their limit anyway and bad regs will get exploited by good regs hud or no hud, so I think it's the bad regs that move and that leaves the good regs who spot an opportunity and casuals.
I suppose it might come down to whether the games were still profitable with the rake cut or not is all.

I use a hud legally on Party Poker Fastforward no limit and the games are often heavy on the red bull aggro, so a hud helps me immensely.

I don't mind not having one if that's the norm, but if others have one I want one in that game to or I'm just leaving money - mine and their's - on the felt.

If no limit goes 'No hud allowed' as standard or I move sites for whatever reason, then I'll adapt obviously.

@Jon-PokerVIP and @hedonhiney , do you guys think plo would be playable without a hud? I would have no idea if it might be as easy, easier, or tougher frankly.

Bit disjointed sorry, but I'm hurrying off to town.

Yeh its playable for sure, but most sites allow a hud anyway, even partypoker that you mentioned, although its player1, player2 etc

Meant to say a more important thing is you are going to play plo at lower stakes, is to look at the rake structures, and esp rake caps, as this will be reached far more frequently than in nhle. So site with high plo rake would be stars and party and on the low sides of things would be microgaming and unibet, but look into it, as that is likely going to have a bigger effect on winrate than HUD or no HUD

Hope that helps