5NL 58s

Posted 8 years agoEdited 8 years ago

vs. 2 fishy players in the blinds... Questionable open or ok?

My thought process
Interesting raise on turn from BB... Sets / 2 pair in his range but I think he's mostly weighted towards a draw as I'd expect 2 pair+ to raise the flop. K shouldn't hit him on the turn unless he has something like K8? Should I fold my pair + GS to a min raise?

River bricks after I call... And he bets less than half pot! Fish usually bet strong when they have it.. hmmm! Call with 2nd pair? Do fish ever do this with Kx, randomly float flop multiway and min raise when they hit a pair?

Hand Conversion Powered by WeakTight Poker Hand History Converter
$0.02/$0.05 No Limit Holdem 888
6 Players

Blinds$0.02/$0.056
UTG walkman2012 $5.20
UTG+1 DmLog $5.70
CO ninja632 $5.14
DHero $9.88
SB Cernz $7.17
BB Vad_Larin $5
Preflop
6$0.07Hero is BTN58
3 folds, Hero raises to $0.12, Cernz calls $0.10, Vad_Larin calls $0.07
Flop
3$0.36468
Cernz checks, Vad_Larin checks, Hero bets$0.25, Cernz calls $0.25, Vad_Larin calls $0.25
Turn
3$1.11K
Cernz checks, Vad_Larin checks, Hero bets$0.60, Cernz folds, Vad_Larin raises to $1.30, Hero calls$0.70
River
2$3.712
Vad_Larin bets $1.65, Hero ???
StratoMan

Last Post 8 years ago by

StratoMan

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Posted 8 years ago
I think the open is fine though I tend to go bigger pre like 3.5x .... Flop is fine when called twice checking turn is an option, I think betting is ok too though. When the turn is checkraised this is very rarely a bluff / semi bluff.

It is player dependent but I would expect the BB to checkraise sets / 2 pair+ on the flop as the board is reasonably wet to a cbet and the SB calling. Most people opt to X/R here as they are concerned about draws getting there or getting turns that kill their action, or turns where everyone checks. That said there are more disciplined players that will prefer to get to the turn before electing to put in a raise depending on the tendencies of the villain (you in this case).

I think I would as played be bet folding the turn. Given the extremely low frequency of turn checkraises being bluffs this reps a strong range, and you have a gutterball which might chop, potentially dead 2 pair / trip outs, and maybe some spade rivers to worry about if he has a hand like KJss, on top of which it is likely hard to get value if you do improve. After two calls on the flop you need to be aware you are likely bluffing with the 58 against at least one player, potentially both. You bet the K turn as a bluff. The small turn checkraise size and the relatively small bet in relation to the pot on the river look quite nutted. They effectively need to be bluffing here 23.5% of the time. This might seem reasonable, but I would think maybe they have some weird bluff here 3-8% at best. (1.65*2+3.71 [pot at river if you call] =7.01 ... 1.65/7.01*100 = 23.5% [(cost of call / pot at river)*100 for the pot odds %]). The bluffs they would have to have would be something like As5s, 9sTs / J9s, 67, 47, 45, 56, and you are asking that they play these combinations of hands in a very very unconventional way. This will happen, but it tends to be so rare that if someone does this we need to respect the play and let them take it till they show us that this is how they play these hands a reasonably large percentage of the time.

Hope this helps and makes sense. Keep in mind I am not going to be 100% correct with all this. I make mistakes too, so evaluate my thinking here, and if it seems reasonable enough, then implement it into your game. If it sounds like BS, then get a second and third opinion.
Posted 8 years ago
The open is fine, even against fish.

C bet is ok with top pair and backdoor flush draw. For protection mainly I guess.

On the turn three way I'm checking and seeing what happens. The cbet is super thin value anyway, but once you get two callers I think we need to slow down.

As played once we get raised I'm giving up. You said the guys is fishy so I would expect him to not be worried about slow playing on a dangerous board if he has two pair or better. Fish will also float you with overcards and hit that king plenty of the time.
Posted 8 years ago
Your preflop open is perfectly fine.

Flop yeah you can cbet, but I'm never really that happy with my hand, but still we can fold to if raised. And just generally try to not be 3 way on the turn so decent for protection and we have a couple of draws we can back in to.

Turn I have to be checking multiway here, it can just turn into a dirty situation like this quickly.

I wouldn't over-think their sizes too much as most recreational bad players aren't really sure where their sizes should be anyway.
Definitely just fold once the raise comes in, he can have spiked 2 pair, or slowplaying a set etc. And your hand is also not strong.
Also just wanna hammer the point home a bit and say just because you would check or bet or whatever with a certain hand in certain spot, doesn't mean the weak player will be thinking on your level so try not to level yourself vs them and just pick the good spots, lots will come up.
Posted 8 years ago
I think we call this river off as we block a lot of what villain is repping, K should not help him and all the draws missed.