I'm a PLO n00b too but it's hard to fold for such a price with top set in a $2 game.

Last time I gave PLO a go I remember people doing this with what would be a nutted hand in NL but they're aware enough that the absolute nuts comes up much more often in PLO and are afraid you'll bet big again.

Yeah this will most likely be a loosing call. All the draws hit the river and you have like the only card Qh that would give hime some chance of having some draws that might play like this.

Hi Milfgrinder,

my experience with PLO specially PLO2 is that all kind of Players (90%) if they call your Flop and Turn Bet and then take action on River if Flush hit (also if they only bet 1/4 river) then they have the Flush definitly (most time a low flush and they want to crush your perhaps hitted Set on the Flop).

In this Limit the most Players are not able to Bluff (special if they only bet 1/4 then they want to get a call from you with your Set - that´s why they bet so small and give you such good Potodds)

In this kind of Spots it´s better to fold and don´t give villain the satisfaction get any more $ for his before bad calls.

4 is pretty much the worst card in the deck and I don't think villain's sizing is that crucial in this spot. While your line till the river looks good, river should most likely be a fold.

Thanks guys! You can expect more of these trivial hh's from me in future!

Fold preflop.

I would recommend and open only QQ with good side cards. Something like QQJT at least single suited from MP.

open sizing I would go for :
UTG - pot
MP, CO - 3bb
BU - 2bb or 2,5bb
SB - pot

I just noticed it was an MP not CO open. In that case folding weak queens pre is totally fine.

Yeah, I'm not competent yet in RFI ranges. @redrooski24 stated bottom line for UTG and Jacks to be JJ97 single suited, so I could go wider than QQJ10ss from MP? Like QQ108ss or so? He also advocated opening pot from any position 100bb eff, and start opening less when stacks get shallower.

JJ97 seems a bit too wide for me. You will have troubles postflop, and lot of time you will just have 2nd nuts straights. also two gaper is not good to have in range on UTG. JJT8ds I would probably open from UTG, but not JJ97ss.

But well. If you follows someones recommended strategy, and you know that the strategy is solid from proven winner. then go for it!


Good luck!

As a general rule, it's best to stay on the tighter side of the force in PLO since opponents can't really punish you as hard as they can in no limit (preflop equities run much closer together, pot limit format etc.). Also, loose preflop game makes every street exponentially harder to play. There's nothing wrong with playing a tight PLO style like 25/18, 24/19 etc.

limp pre I don't see a reason to raise. You want people in so you can overset them deep in a high SPR spot. Raising just lets the blinds fold their trash. This hand does not really have components to it that are promoted through isolation... you are not trying to fold out K3T7ssxx so your spades are live, or create a low enough SPR that they can check jam pairs + TXss for pair + flushdraw.

Also re. river bet. Sorry I did not write a reply. They just have "it" here whatever it may be. Likely their "it" is > QQ. Slightly deeper I would be tempted to raise. They likely do not have the nuts leading 1/4 pot on the river. Feels blockerish and non-nut but they are not deep enough to fold to a shove.

Hahah we go opposites for raise sizing. I pot LP and sometimes go smaller EP.

Hi MattVIP......

played the last 3 years on Pokerstars PLO Zoom and played a style like 25/18 or a little bit lower. Run nice with it but not really good. Needed long time to move up and beat PLO2 and PLO5 to PLO10 ..... play a lot of hands so it could not be, that I play to less.

Since now 2 month I went to other Pokersides (for the Bonus). First was Betfair.... there is no PLO Fast and so I had to go to normal Cash Tables. And what I saw there was really frustrating for me... almost every Pot was played Multiway (4way or 5way) ... Noone leave from their hands (also with Raise and Reraise) ... and what should I say. The Guys with the highest VPIP (most time up to 50) had the most stacks and won the most.... they play almost every hand (every Axs and Kxs, every pair - without good sidecards, every 3 BBB and also absolut Trash hands like K962 or KJ37 Rainbow) and at the Flop everything was called (Low 2 Pair, only Gutshots and low Flushes). And what should I say .... Me with solid stats was the most time the unlucky one.
With for example Set I lost most time against a low Flush or a Guy who played Gutshot and they almost all time hit the River.
If I had a 12 or 15 Outer (Nutflush and Gutshot or Open Ender) really the most time I Lost again a guy with Low 2 Pair who hit his FullHouse.
And so on....

First I thought this is because of so much Gambler there.

So I went to StanJames. And there also the same thing. The most Guys there play a Style like 55/30 or 50/25. And what should I say... Me with solid stats like you said most time get the short end of the stick.

So I am very frustrating with this stats and a solid Play. I think today if you play a solid style you will be always the looser.

And sorry I can not understand why almost everybody says that this is a profitalble style. Cause I play now for several years and It is definitly not profitable in my eyes.

What can I say, variance in PLO is huge. Also, preflop stats are just a tiny part of the overall strategy, PLO is such a post flop driven game that many different preflop styles can be viable. That being said you can't really defend including hands like K962 into your range and artificially inflating your VPIP to the 50% or so cause while it might work in the short run (and keep in mind that 100-200k hands, is still 'short run' in PLO) you can't possibly make those hands profitable in the long run. I'm sorry you had a bad experience playing PLO but I'm pretty sure it would've been much, much worse have you played 55/30 instead of that 25/18. Also, judging from your post I don't think preflop play is the issue and I'd take a close look at your database to search for some major leaks that might cause you to lose money at the tables.

@KreativJoker Post some hands in the forums here and tag some of the plo player by doing a @name in the text. eg. @joshk81

Hi Joshk81,

Here is a short list of some Player on StanJames with noted stats

Player: Hit_and_Run 305 Hands ( VPIP/PFR/3Bet 59/39/11 )
Player: Raz-al-Ghul 340 Hands ( 58,7/17,1/15,4 )
Player: UnrealRiver 434 Hands ( 53/ 36,4/ 20,5 )
Player: D0n0t3Bet 436 Hands ( 50,7/30,9/26,7)

Given Hands are only hands against me but I also Observe and this is not noted.

It´s too difficult to Post all Donk Hands they Play...... But This are the largest Winner there and also if I only Observe and not Play they play same style and It´s funny. They win almost every hand (also Trash) they play. Had many hands against them where I could go all in with Equity more than 75 % (what is really good for PLO) and then they hit runner runner.

But this are not the only Players there who wins a lot with this stats... There are many many People and almost noone play a Tight style.

I also have problems with Handexport at StanJames. And so I had to change the Database serveral times. This is only for the last 5 Days.

I think what @Joshk81 meant is for you to post some of your hands on the forum so we can help you plug some of your leaks.

Opened a Treat Named "To all PLO Players out there" and posted hands there but noone reply and so I find Posting is not good for me.

The Best thing if you want to help me is if you look at a short session for me and then you can see how I react at the Tables. Would it be ok if I make a short session Video (2 Tables) and you look over it? If yes can you give me Info which freesoftware I can use to create a Sessionvideo (i only use AutoScreenRecorder 3.1 Free but with this is very difficult cause it only records 30 Minutes in bad quality).