Danwan

Villains stats:
VPIP: 25, PFR: 13, 3B: 3, AF: 2,8, Hands: 97

Turn: fold or call?

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$0.10/$0.25 No Limit Holdem PokerStars
6 Players

Blinds$0.10/$0.256
UTG Player4 $19.41
UTG+1Hero $25
CO Player6 $25
D Player1 $92.34
SB Player2 $3.53
BB Player3 $26.96

Preflop
6$0.35Hero is UTG+1JK
Player4 raises to $0.50, Hero raises to $1.50, 1 fold, Player1 calls $1.50, 2 folds, Player4 calls $1

Flop
3$4.85J67
Player4 bets $4.63, Hero calls$4.63, Player1 folds

Turn
2$14.112
Player4 goes all-in $13.28, Hero calls$13.28

River
2$40.67, 1 all-in A

Final Pot$40.67
Player4 shows
Hero shows JK

Last Post 8 years ago by

lennuk

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https://www.pokervip.com/thread/view?forum=poker-strategy&slug=nl25-zoom-kjs&nav=56fe5052d3904338608b4600

Call preflop no need to 3b. When villain takes this line I think first we have QQ+ JJ, AJs (assuming you 3b this hands). Can't be exploited by folding so just comes dwon to if we can exploit him by calling. I'm not seeing anything to tell me he is really aggro so I make an exploitative fold ott if I'm playing my best.

I would fold the turn i just don't think there is enough worse hands he can have on that board, the only real draw is 89 , i think once he over calls and does this your looking at JJ,77-66 , 67s , I think hes going to 4bet QQ+ AK once there is a caller not many people want to slow play them multi way.

Your hoping he has what TJ QJ and decided to spew ? i think your crushed here nearly always and id be really worried on the flop when he donks into 2 players to be honest , i think you have to call flop but turn is a clear fold imo.

His stats seem very solid so its not really the player type i would expect to over value hands or just randomly spew , unless you have a reason to think hes tilting. I also wouldn't be ruling out a slow played QQ+ i just think its less likely when it goes multi way.

CrazyCookie: Call preflop no need to 3b. .

I quite like the 3b with KJs from these positions.

Why? What are you expecting calls you that we want to get a call from?

We are dominated by all his kx and AJ and nut flush draws. Pocket pairs are all we want to see. We can see a flop IP with a hand that dominated more of his range and makes a lot of top pair hands and hands we can call otf with as floats or with draws.

I don't have much of a calling range in MP vs UTG i think this is a hand that would go into most peoples 3betting ranges here .Its essentially a bluff and probably one of the best hands you could use here to do it with. Its not that i want calls i want folds , but were not devastated when called either. I'm not really to sure what ranges people use to call from MP usually very tight though ?.It may depend whether or not you 3bet premiums from these positions i guess to whether you should 3bet hands like this.

Facing a 2x raise from a passive looking fish.... Watch any good player and they have a calling range here. You can have a strategy which only has 3b sure... But you then have to 3b like 8% of hands and a lot of them have a higher EV to call and even more so in microstakes games. Kjo is better to 3b but KJs is better to call.

LFCchris: It may depend whether or not you 3bet premiums from these positions i guess to whether you should 3bet hands like this.

Not at 25nl. You are not going to be exploited by someone oop for having a capped range, espically when that capped range will likely have a bigger proportion of bw combos than pfr. Sure they will have more top set and tptk but we lose more v those when we 3b anyway

You can 3bet say KK+ KJs AJo here and be very balanced. , Maybe flat something like QQ-88,AJs+,KQs,AQo+ along with flatting KK+ say 25% of the time. I dont think his 3bet is necessarily bad .

Vs a 24/13 i'm unsure , i'm new to trying to figure out player types through stats, what sort of range do you expect him to be raising UTG ? we only have 97 hands so i'm going to assume maybe something 10% ? i think KJs is a fine hand to 3b in these positions.

Interesting spot though.

CrazyCookie: Sure they will have more top set and tptk but we lose more v those when we 3b anyway

A'lot of those TPTK wont call preflop , i would think KQ AJ both fold , most small PP's fold oop , Hands we are behind like AQ likely fold oop especially unsuited , what range do you expect him to call with here ? I think we auto profit from a 3bet here , its just whether or not 3betting is better than calling.

Adam Jones has made 2 videos about this.
The Advanced 3-Betting Strategy - Part 1 and Part 2

He says that hands nearly always has a higher expectation as a 3-bet.

https://www.pokervip.com/coaching-videos/advanced-3-betting-strategy--part-1
https://www.pokervip.com/coaching-videos/the-advanced-3-betting-strategy--part-2

Danwan: Adam Jones has made 2 videos about this.
The Advanced 3-Betting Strategy - Part 1 and Part 2

He says that hands nearly always has a higher expectation as a 3-bet.

https://www.pokervip.com/coaching-videos/advanced-3-betting-strategy--part-1
https://www.pokervip.com/coaching-videos/the-advanced-3-betting-strategy--part-2

Thanks ill take a watch.

One thing i will add , is you have to remember when your 3betting as a bluff and not get to committed postflop with 1 pair hands . Just remember their calling range will likely have you dominated, and that range will also dominate you when you have 1 pair hands on the flop . I'm certainly not looking to stack off in spots like this all the time. His stack size makes him look fishy , but he would need to be aggro fishy for me to be happy about calling flop and turn here.

Even if we have about 40% equity with KJs vs villains continuing-range its still more profitable to 3-bet them instead of flatting them he says.

Danwan: Even if we have about 40% equity with KJs vs villains continuing-range its still more profitable to 3-bet them instead of flatting them he says.

I think your 3b is fine personally , i just think you over valued TP postflop. I think your looking at a random spew to be ahead of rather than a made hand like QJ or TJ , and i'm just not sure you run into random bluffs often enough to merit calling flop and turn.

Danwan: Even if we have about 40% equity with KJs vs villains continuing-range its still more profitable to 3-bet them instead of flatting them he says.

Not really to sure you ever have as much as 40% equity when called from these positions id put it at more like 25% - 30% , your profits all in folds preflop as hes folding so often from these positions. What do people continue with here ? TT+,AKs,AKo , TT+,AQs+,AKo , some people will continue alot tighter aswell with QQ+ AK. . I would expect peoples folds here to a 3bet to be up somewhere close to 80% maybe.

Danwan: Even if we have about 40% equity with KJs vs villains continuing-range its still more profitable to 3-bet them instead of flatting them he says.

Lol this is bs. There are so many variables postflop that you cannot just say that you need x percentage to make preflop 3b better than a call!

3b will be +EV sure, but when we flat we have all his KTs K9s, JQs JTs, J9s and all his small pp. So when we make to we dominate more of villains range. Moreover this hand is perfect for floating a lot of boards because it will have a drawbof some kind a lot or will block most of his TP combos (KQ/qjon qx, AK/aj on ax). This means we will have quite a high EV call on a lot of flop textures and given we are in position will be able to bet when checked to and win on a lot of board textures.

You can have a strategy where you have at as a 3b bluff sure, but I would rather use this and some other BW combos, pp and ATs-AQs to negate villains advantage on Ax, kx and qx flops and because none of these hands are loving life in a 3bp with TP. They either don't win any more money v smaller pp or are beat a lot.

Never said the 3b was bad, I just think that having it in a calling range will be a higher EV espically given the 2x raise from a passive fish.

Also in terms of getting folds... He is opening 13% of hands and is utg... I don't know if our fold equity even makes this amazing +EV as a 3b bluff.

Fine, I can´t argue with that.

Anyway I sometimes 3bet KJs, and sometimes flat them. Probably a pretty ok strategy.
In MP vs a 2BB-raise vs an opponent with a weird stacksize I decided to isolate him to play heads up vs him. What do you think about that? I also so often get squeezed. Don´t you think you will get squeezed alot here vs an small raise from UTG and a call?

CrazyCookie:

Danwan: Even if we have about 40% equity with KJs vs villains continuing-range its still more profitable to 3-bet them instead of flatting them he says.

As you say hes a little on the passive side so to expect half of those hands is optimistic if he has hands like J9s K9s , your expecting him to have an RFI UTG of somewhere around 15% - 20% , i just don't think its any where near that.

You also have to consider how often we get squeezed when we call here if we are calling a wide range from these positions , i think KJs is right on the edge of call or 3bet , personally i much prefer 3betting it from MP vs UTG , its certainly not a mistake to call it though i wouldn't think.

If we have a reason to do something that differs from our strategy and that reason will exploit villain then it will be fine. Just always double think your logic.

I agree that isolating a fishy looking player will be a good idea, and we may get squeezed which is a shame. But think about the range the fish opens with and then continues v the 3b, we mostly don't get to play him now with a range full of TJ, JQ, KQ KTs and 22-66. It's goig to be ATs+ 88-QQ maybe KQs. That is not a range KJs is doing great against

It's a pretty hand and very easy to make an excuse for 3betting but when we get postflop we struggle to get loads of value from it so use it to bluff. This is still going to be +EV (so long as you have good reads/understand when to be bluffing KJs and how often you can given your value range on different flop textures

) but it makes it a bit of a tough hand to play. On this board say it goes x/c. What are we getting called by OTT that is worse than KJ? We end up getting similar ammount of money in the pot as we would have if we call then put money in otf ott and decide otr but we get tonplay v bluffs, worse jx.

What did he turn up with BTW? Waiting for the bit where you say he shoves TJ and makes me look stupid lol

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